Life is full of surprises, some of them good and some of them bad. This week I got a great surprise when a Debian version of Linux Mint was released. I wasn’t aware that the Linux Mint developers were even working on it, so the release was quite unexpected. I did a full review of Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE) for the Desktop Linux Reviews blog, but I wanted to talk about why this release is so important and helpful for desktop Linux users.
Not Everybody is a Fan of Ubuntu
As you probably already know, the other versions of Linux Mint are based on Ubuntu. There are various versions including the GNOME version of Linux Mint, Linux Mint KDE, Linux Mint Xfce, etc. Each of these is popular, in their own way and with their own base of users.
But not everyone is enamored with Ubuntu. There are those who think that Ubuntu has made Linux too Mac-like. Remember the controversy over where the title bar buttons were placed in the last release of Ubuntu? Swarms of angry Ubuntu users castigated Canonical for following too closely in Apple’s footsteps.
The desktop and welcome menu for Linux Mint Debian Edition.
Personally, I think the hostility toward Canonical and Ubuntu is more than a little overblown. Ubuntu has been a big plus, for the most part, for desktop Linux. So I hate to see some of the venom directed at it by those who disagree with the direction that Canonical is taking with Ubuntu.
However, I accept the fact that some people simply don’t like Ubuntu and never will. LMDE removes any and all Ubuntu baggage, so it’s a great option for those who don’t like Ubuntu.
Linux Mint Menu
Why Do We Need a Debian Version?
I’ve seen this question posed in some online discussions, and it struck me as a little bit funny. Some folks are basically confused in a chicken/egg sort of way since the Ubuntu based versions of Linux Mint have been out for a long time now.
It’s important to note that Ubuntu itself is actually based on Debian. The Ubuntu developers obviously have customized their offering, but the fact remains that Ubuntu really is nothing more than a remaster of Debian itself (albeit with many significant changes).
So, in a sense, LMDE simply bypasses Ubuntu altogether and instead uses Debian itself as the base. It’s sort of like cutting out the middleman, so to speak.
It also clearly demonstrates that Ubuntu isn’t necessary to enjoy all that Linux Mint offers. All of the wonderful, helpful Linux Mint tools are there in the Debian version without any Ubuntu claptrap or changes.
LMDE comes with the excellent Linux Mint software manager.
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(16 votes, average: 4.50 out of 5)
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Good that Mint comes with Debian now. Would be nice if they take up Debian KDE and give the nice green theme and release. Debian KDE is really good. Debian + KDE + Mint = ultimate Linux distro.
I have yet to try LMDE but if it’s more stable, has better hardware support and is less likely to break when you upgrade, then why not? I would gladly shift over from the Ubuntu-based editions of this nice distro.
Ooops, I posted some questions on the review but then saw this article which might be more appropriate so I will post here instead.
I have been using Xubuntu for 3 or 4 years now but have been getting less and less happy with the direction it has been going (more and more bloated, too mac-like, and so so tired of 6 month releases). I’d love to try this but I don’t really know much about debian. I have a couple of questions perhaps someone might be able to answer (I’d post on the mint forum but years ago I asked a question there and got lots of useless abuse for being a newbie).
1. I have read that the repos are unsigned. Is that true? Is it a problem for security?
2. To use xfce for the desktop is it as simple as just installing it (as you would if you installed Ubuntu instead of Xubuntu)?
3. I hate pulseAudio with a passion and always ditch it as fast as I can in favour of Alsa (which works better with my laptop). Is it as easy to revert as in Ubuntu?
4. I really like the home directory encryption like in Ubuntu. Is that unique to *buntu distros or can you enable it in debian too?
Any polite feedback would be welcome. Thanks.
@ slumbergod:
1. The repos and packages are signed with keys; if you add the Debian-Multimedia repos (which I suggest, for the desktop) then you’ll want to ‘aptitude update’ and ‘aptitude search key’ and install that repo’s key as well.
2. Yes it is just as easy… well,depends :) Are you installing the full Debian with GNOME desktop? Or are you installing the NetInstall disk and then adding your own packages, such as Debian’s excellent KDE? Are you installing Lenny (stable) or Squeeze (testing) or installing Lenny and immediatly upgradiung to Squeeze? I guess what I am saying is, installing XFCE is easy within Synaptic, and easy on the CLI if youknow how to do it. I recommend Squeeze by the way, for newer software, or Testing for a rolling release (currently they’re the same but not always).
3. Same answer as the mouthful that is Answer #2 :)
4. I’ve not paid enough attention lately with my server installs to know if there is a home/ encryption option or not… fire up VirtualBox and give it a try for us, eh?
3.
Basing on Debian is a huge plus, but basing on Debian testing is a mistake, as LMDE fans will come to know in time. Its testing, and inherently, as well as by definition, UNSTABLE!
LMDE fans right now are going to be lulled into a false sense of security because testing right now = stable because of the freeze and imminent release of testing to stable. Those of you Mint fans who are completely unaware of how Debian does things are going to come into a rude awakening when Testing repo’s once again open up and the floodgates are opened.
This is the release i really wanna test. Mint has been stabile and really userfriedly. What i really have been missing is rolling release with new (hopely stabile) version applications. If it really works i’m gonna installed to my old papa
@ davemc:
Is it possible to avoid unstabile packages in LMDE just not choosing some test-sources, like in Fedora? As you propably know there are in Fedora:
-test updates
-updates
-free updates
-non free
-non free updates
-Rawhide
etc, etc…
@lefty.crupps
thanks, that certainly helps me. Yeah, I was thinking of downloading the Debian Mint live DVD and installing xfce via aptitude. By chance late last night I read someone else’s account of getting rid of pulseAudio so I know that works perfectly. That just leaves the encrypted home directory to investigate.
davemc wrote:
Windows should be that unstable.
I have never had a problem with debian testing. I did once run unstable for a few months and *once* an upgrade hooped my system. Not with testing.
Aren’t many debian-based distros based on testing rather than stable? (e.g. ubuntu)
@ davemc:
A fair warning however, every version of Linux Mint including LMDE has the home grown Mint Update Manager which seperates any future updates into 5 different levels. Levels 4 and 5 are considered dangerous and are not enabled. Levels 1 through 3, which are enabled by default, are considered safe updates and any Debian Testing updates will be checked and sorted into these 5 levels. Future LMDE updates should be much safer than with pure Debian Testing.
That being said, the Mint team has already warned users that LMDE will always be a bit rougher due to the very fact that it’s based on Debian Testing.
@ Sid:
The community will respond and make a KDE version of this…the community at Linux Mint rivals any community in Linux IMHO.
Yes Ubuntu is very much like Apple. It takes but doesn’t give back. For a corporation to use Open Source (GPL Ubuntu, BSD Apple) applications and products yet maybe commit a handful (in maybe a year) of patches back upstream to projects like the Linux Kernel. I can’t really agree that it’s been a positive experience for the Linux Desktop if anything coupled with the fan boy cliche that seems to surround there community and broken updates from time to time I see them as quite a negative force in the Linux Desktop world. For a label or brand that so wants to define the Open Source Community and the Linux community in general they do a piss poor job of working with the community and that’s reflected in the number of fanboys that think of community as a group of people in the hills some where drinking coolaid wearing nikes and waiting to ride on their space comet too open source glory. So when a distro like Mint goes outside of that and maybe works within the debian world instead of just branching off and thinking there way is better, while just segregating and further fragmenting the Linux Community, I have to applaud them. And I’m left wondering what examples of Ubuntu benefiting Linux are there that there wasn’t already offered?
1. I have read that the repos are unsigned. Is that true? Is it a problem for security?
– install keys from Debian
2. To use xfce for the desktop is it as simple as just installing it (as you would if you installed Ubuntu instead of Xubuntu)?
– $ aptitude update
– $ aptitude install xfce4
– $ aptitude install xfce4-goodies
or something like that, just google “debian xfce”
3. I hate pulseAudio with a passion and always ditch it as fast as I can in favour of Alsa (which works better with my laptop). Is it as easy to revert as in Ubuntu?
– running Debian Testing now and didn’t see PulseAudio at all. everything done with alsamixer
4. I really like the home directory encryption like in Ubuntu. Is that unique to *buntu distros or can you enable it in debian too?
– can be done but a little work on you end, ask/search in debian related forum and help will come.
5. Using Debian Testing for all these years with ANY problem on my desktop/laptop. Good luck !! :D
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Never understood what’s so “hard” about Debian. I was almost a newbie when I switched from openSuse (which demanded too much from my old laptop) and then Ubuntu (after the sound broke and I couldn’t fix it). Every now and then you will probably run into a problem, but the answers are out there. Much the same as with openSuse or Ubuntu.